ntfs3g (or whatever) crashes are not fixed

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ntfs3g (or whatever) crashes are not fixed

matteo sisti sette
Hi all,
For god's sake isn't there a bugtracker? All I found in the sourceforge
project page is this mailing list....

Just wanted to let you know that the bug described here
https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/fuse/+bug/1072270

which everybody everywhere states is fixed in version 2.9.2, isn't.

See https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/fuse/+bug/1072270/comments/29

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Re: ntfs3g (or whatever) crashes are not fixed

Miklos Szeredi
On Fri, Aug 30, 2013 at 12:48 PM, matteo sisti sette
<[hidden email]> wrote:

> Hi all,
> For god's sake isn't there a bugtracker? All I found in the sourceforge
> project page is this mailing list....
>
> Just wanted to let you know that the bug described here
> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/fuse/+bug/1072270
>
> which everybody everywhere states is fixed in version 2.9.2, isn't.
>
> See https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/fuse/+bug/1072270/comments/29

Ntfs-3g uses it's own internal version of fuse, so the fuse package's
version is irrelevant for this bug.

Please check the ntfs-3g version instead.

Thanks,
Miklos

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Re: ntfs3g (or whatever) crashes are not fixed

matteo sisti sette
In reply to this post by matteo sisti sette
On 08/30/2013 01:45 PM, Jean-Pierre André wrote:
 > There is a mailing list ([hidden email])
 > and a forum (http://tuxera.com/forum/)
 >
 > Both can be used to report a problem with ntfs-3g,
 > but you have to register with non-free email (GMAIL IS FORBIDDEN).

:O:O Unbelievable


 > This bug is a fuse one, not an ntfs-3g one. You should
 > post to the fuse mailing list [hidden email]

That sounds pretty much like the address to which I sent this email.



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Re: ntfs3g (or whatever) crashes are not fixed

Miklos Szeredi
On Fri, Aug 30, 2013 at 2:17 PM, Matteo Sisti Sette
<[hidden email]> wrote:

> On 08/30/2013 01:45 PM, Jean-Pierre André wrote:
>  > There is a mailing list ([hidden email])
>  > and a forum (http://tuxera.com/forum/)
>  >
>  > Both can be used to report a problem with ntfs-3g,
>  > but you have to register with non-free email (GMAIL IS FORBIDDEN).
>
> :O:O Unbelievable
>
>
>  > This bug is a fuse one, not an ntfs-3g one. You should
>  > post to the fuse mailing list [hidden email]
>
> That sounds pretty much like the address to which I sent this email.

Jean,

the bug is in fuse, no question about that and it's been fixed a long time ago.

But AFAIK ntfs-3g has it's own internal version of fuse, so the fix
has to be there too and the question is: in which version is it?

Thanks,
Miklos

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Re: ntfs3g (or whatever) crashes are not fixed

Jean-Pierre André
Hi Miklos,

Miklos Szeredi wrote:

> On Fri, Aug 30, 2013 at 2:17 PM, Matteo Sisti Sette
> <[hidden email]>  wrote:
>> On 08/30/2013 01:45 PM, Jean-Pierre André wrote:
>>   >  There is a mailing list ([hidden email])
>>   >  and a forum (http://tuxera.com/forum/)
>>   >
>>   >  Both can be used to report a problem with ntfs-3g,
>>   >  but you have to register with non-free email (GMAIL IS FORBIDDEN).
>>
>> :O:O Unbelievable
>>
>>
>>   >  This bug is a fuse one, not an ntfs-3g one. You should
>>   >  post to the fuse mailing list [hidden email]
>>
>> That sounds pretty much like the address to which I sent this email.
>
> Jean,
>
> the bug is in fuse, no question about that and it's been fixed a long time ago.
>
> But AFAIK ntfs-3g has it's own internal version of fuse, so the fix
> has to be there too and the question is: in which version is it?

It is an old version (roughly 2.7, the same one for Linux
and OpenIndiana (a fork of OpenSolaris)), but :

1) This is irrelevant for the reported bug which happens
in Ubuntu which does not use the fuse library shipped by
ntfs-3g.

2) The bug was introduced when inserting a new feature
(I do not remember which one) which was not inserted in
the fuse library shipped with ntfs-3g.

3) Fortunately, fuse has a good ascending compatibility
policy (will that break with fuse 3.x ?)

As a consequence, the bug has never been reported in
distributions which use the internal ntfs-3g (such as
Fedora).

Regards

Jean-Pierre

>
> Thanks,
> Miklos
>
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Re: ntfs3g (or whatever) crashes are not fixed

matteo sisti sette
In reply to this post by Miklos Szeredi
On 08/30/2013 02:00 PM, Miklos Szeredi wrote:

> Ntfs-3g uses it's own internal version of fuse, so the fuse package's
> version is irrelevant for this bug.
>
> Please check the ntfs-3g version instead.

Then that means that the "workaround" described in comment #29 at
https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/fuse/+bug/1072270/comments/29
is completely useless?

It would be great if some of you who know it for sure would comment it
on that bug report, so that people are not mislead as I was to apply
that useless workaround.

Which, by the way, many people seem to think actually works. And so did
I until now. It must have been a coincidence that I stopped observing
the bug (which I used to experience almost every day) after following
those instructions to install the latest fuse and libfuse.
It must have been also a coincidence that I'm observing it again for the
first time after upgrading ubuntu to 13.04.
I'm not being sarchastic, I can't see another explanation.

P.S. my installed version of ntfs-3g is now  1:2013.1.13-1+0ubuntu2
I don't know what version I had before the ubuntu upgrade, but since I
never touched it, it was most probably either an earlier one or the same.

Regards
m.

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Re: ntfs3g (or whatever) crashes are not fixed

Jean-Pierre André
Hi,

Matteo Sisti Sette wrote:

> On 08/30/2013 02:00 PM, Miklos Szeredi wrote:
>
>> Ntfs-3g uses it's own internal version of fuse, so the fuse package's
>> version is irrelevant for this bug.
>>
>> Please check the ntfs-3g version instead.
>
> Then that means that the "workaround" described in comment #29 at
> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/fuse/+bug/1072270/comments/29
> is completely useless?

Which workaround are you pointing at ?
Reminder :  Ubuntu does not use the fuse library shipped by nfs-3g.

> It would be great if some of you who know it for sure would comment it
> on that bug report, so that people are not mislead as I was to apply
> that useless workaround.

I do not see any precise data about your own issue. Nobody can be
sure you hit the same bug as the one reported as #1072270 without
some extra detail. Getting a message "Transport endpoint is not
connected" is not enough to qualify for being the same bug. You
may have hit another bug in fuse, ntfs-3g or whatever.

Can you post the syslog messages and backchain triggered by the
bug (Sorry, I do not know the procedure to collect them from
Ubuntu)

> Which, by the way, many people seem to think actually works. And so did
> I until now. It must have been a coincidence that I stopped observing
> the bug (which I used to experience almost every day) after following
> those instructions to install the latest fuse and libfuse.
> It must have been also a coincidence that I'm observing it again for the
> first time after upgrading ubuntu to 13.04.
> I'm not being sarchastic, I can't see another explanation.
>
> P.S. my installed version of ntfs-3g is now  1:2013.1.13-1+0ubuntu2
> I don't know what version I had before the ubuntu upgrade, but since I
> never touched it, it was most probably either an earlier one or the same.

No bug similar to what you are describing is known in this ntfs-3g
version (released six months ago). If this were to be an ntfs-3g
bug, please start chkdsk from Windows before reporting.

Jean-Pierre


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Re: Fwd: ntfs3g (or whatever) crashes are not fixed

matteo sisti sette

> Matteo Sisti Sette wrote:
>> On 08/30/2013 02:00 PM, Miklos Szeredi wrote:
>>
>>> Ntfs-3g uses it's own internal version of fuse, so the fuse package's
>>> version is irrelevant for this bug.
>>>
>>> Please check the ntfs-3g version instead.
>>
>> Then that means that the "workaround" described in comment #29 at
>> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/fuse/+bug/1072270/comments/29
>> is completely useless?
>
> Which workaround are you pointing at ?

Sorry, wrong link:
https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/fuse/+bug/1072270/comments/26

The supposed workaround (or probably the right word is "fix") is to
install libfuse/fuse version 2.9.2-2 or above. Which I did in Ubuntu
12.10, and seemed to work (never observed a ntfs-3g crash again) until
it crashed again recently after upgrading to Ubuntu 13.04. I don't know
whether it is a coincidence or something has "regressed" in Ubuntu
13.04, but the version of fuse and libfuse which I had installed
(2.9.2-4) is still there.


> I do not see any precise data about your own issue. Nobody can be
> sure you hit the same bug as the one reported as #1072270 without
> some extra detail. Getting a message "Transport endpoint is not
> connected" is not enough to qualify for being the same bug. You
> may have hit another bug in fuse, ntfs-3g or whatever.

Maybe. Besides the message "Transport endpoint..." there is the ubuntu
popup window indicating that nfts-3g has crashed (iirc, it says that
"some system program" has crashed, then the "Show Details" button shows
it's ntfs-3g or ntfs-3g-something.


 > Reminder :  Ubuntu does not use the fuse library shipped by nfs-3g.

I have no idea what that implies. The discussion in the Ubuntu bug
report seems to indicate that replacing libfuse and fuse with the most
recent version is supposed to fix the ntfs3g crashes; somebody in this
list said that those packages are irrelevant because ntfs-3g uses its
own version, so installing whatever version of libfuse/fuse on Ubuntu
should have no impact; now I don't understand which of the two thesis
this reminder  supports.


>
> Can you post the syslog messages and backchain triggered by the
> bug (Sorry, I do not know the procedure to collect them from
> Ubuntu)

Sorry, I don't either.

> If this were to be an ntfs-3g
> bug,

I'm not implying this is a ntfs-3g bug. Everybody seems to agree it's a
fuse/libfuse bug, and I'm not questioning it. This mailing list is about
fuse development, not about ntfs-3g development, right?


> please start chkdsk from Windows before reporting.

I shouldn't ever need Windows to use a ntfs partition in Linux, or to
report a bug against a Linux program.

Do you mean that if the crash is triggered by some error in the ntfs
partition (which Window's chkdsk could detect and/or fix) then it's not
a bug?

Or do you mean that chkdisk would provide additional information?


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Re: Fwd: ntfs3g (or whatever) crashes are not fixed

Jean-Pierre André
Hi Matteo,

Matteo Sisti Sette wrote:

>
>> Matteo Sisti Sette wrote:
>>> On 08/30/2013 02:00 PM, Miklos Szeredi wrote:
>>>
>>>> Ntfs-3g uses it's own internal version of fuse, so the fuse package's
>>>> version is irrelevant for this bug.
>>>>
>>>> Please check the ntfs-3g version instead.
>>>
>>> Then that means that the "workaround" described in comment #29 at
>>> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/fuse/+bug/1072270/comments/29
>>> is completely useless?
>>
>> Which workaround are you pointing at ?
>
> Sorry, wrong link:
> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/fuse/+bug/1072270/comments/26
>
> The supposed workaround (or probably the right word is "fix") is to
> install libfuse/fuse version 2.9.2-2 or above. Which I did in Ubuntu
> 12.10, and seemed to work (never observed a ntfs-3g crash again) until
> it crashed again recently after upgrading to Ubuntu 13.04. I don't
> know whether it is a coincidence or something has "regressed" in
> Ubuntu 13.04, but the version of fuse and libfuse which I had
> installed (2.9.2-4) is still there.
>
>
>> I do not see any precise data about your own issue. Nobody can be
>> sure you hit the same bug as the one reported as #1072270 without
>> some extra detail. Getting a message "Transport endpoint is not
>> connected" is not enough to qualify for being the same bug. You
>> may have hit another bug in fuse, ntfs-3g or whatever.
>
> Maybe. Besides the message "Transport endpoint..." there is the ubuntu
> popup window indicating that nfts-3g has crashed (iirc, it says that
> "some system program" has crashed, then the "Show Details" button
> shows it's ntfs-3g or ntfs-3g-something.
>
>
> > Reminder :  Ubuntu does not use the fuse library shipped by nfs-3g.
>
> I have no idea what that implies. The discussion in the Ubuntu bug
> report seems to indicate that replacing libfuse and fuse with the most
> recent version is supposed to fix the ntfs3g crashes; somebody in this
> list said that those packages are irrelevant because ntfs-3g uses its
> own version, so installing whatever version of libfuse/fuse on Ubuntu
> should have no impact; now I don't understand which of the two thesis
> this reminder  supports.

Well, the bug reported as #1072270 relates to
libfuse (AFAIK versions 2.9.0 and 2.9.1). The fuse
library shipped by ntfs-3g is not used by Ubuntu,
so the bug #1072270 is specific to versions which
are discussed on this list. I was mainly objecting
to Miklos' remark quoted above.

So, even though we do not know whether your bug
is the same as #1072270, they cannot be caused
by the fuse library shipped by ntfs-3g.

>> Can you post the syslog messages and backchain triggered by the
>> bug (Sorry, I do not know the procedure to collect them from
>> Ubuntu)
>
> Sorry, I don't either.
>
>> If this were to be an ntfs-3g
>> bug,
>
> I'm not implying this is a ntfs-3g bug. Everybody seems to agree it's
> a fuse/libfuse bug, and I'm not questioning it. This mailing list is
> about fuse development, not about ntfs-3g development, right?

Ok, I am getting out of this thread.

>> please start chkdsk from Windows before reporting.
>
> I shouldn't ever need Windows to use a ntfs partition in Linux, or to
> report a bug against a Linux program.

I agree. However nobody has released an open-source
ntfs checker for Linux, so this is just a wish.

> Do you mean that if the crash is triggered by some error in the ntfs
> partition (which Window's chkdsk could detect and/or fix) then it's
> not a bug?
>
> Or do you mean that chkdisk would provide additional information?

I mainly mean that if ntfs-3g has really crashed, your
data might be left in an inconsistent state, and you
will save energy by putting things right first.

Now, the bug reported as #1072270 occurs between
transitions and should not affect your data.

Jean-Pierr

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